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Academy Development - cheers Steve?

Discussion in 'Molineux Mix' started by DDPP313, Jan 11, 2017.

  1. Essex Wolf

    Essex Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Fully agreed MEW. Some will bang on about Wolves having their most successful period for many years under Morgan's ownership whilst seemingly forgetting he also oversaw some of the worst unless a double relegation is seen as good and or acceptable?
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
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  2. astraltrader

    astraltrader Just doesn't shut up

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    The thing I will never forgive Morgan for was taking advantage of Sir Jacks £10 sale of the club by convincing him he was there for the long haul then baling out on us when it suited him.
     
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  3. Essex Wolf

    Essex Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Another case of peoples selective memory astral. Morgan and his sidekick Moxey said a great deal but words mean sod all without the necessary action to back them up and at least try and achieve what those words mean/meant.
    Even if Morgan has done things for the club people can look at now and/or the future and say were plus points, positives and have been of benefit there are far more negatives.
     
  4. Mile End Wanderer

    Mile End Wanderer Has a lot to say

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    Bang on so what we was in the Prem we didn't do as good as Wigan 9 seasons or Albion look where they are now
     
  5. Jim Bowen

    Jim Bowen Just doesn't shut up

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    Well he had to spend some of what the club was making on something, in his final 5 years he didn't invest a penny into the first team and diverted all that money into running the academy. People make out he was unique, a visionary but around 25 clubs have category one status meaning they are all also investing into their academy, plus in most cases their first team as well so what's the big deal with Morgan? He chose to use the clubs money on one part of the club while the rest invested in both the first team and the academy.
     
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  6. northnorfolkwolf

    northnorfolkwolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Surely we've had some form of academy (different name?) for years - where did RK and JL appear from? Over the years we've produced some decent talent (Ismail was one we all purred about) but what is exciting now is we seem to have a manager who is prepared to actually promote them and play them - which is fantastic. I've been critical of the academy in the past because it rarely, if ever, produces anyone for the first team but since PL's arrival I'm wondering if previous managers just didn't have the balls/bottle to give youth a go? Ideally I'd love a Wolves team to be roughly 50% home grown, 25% British bought, 25% foreign.
     
  7. SteveBullsKnee

    SteveBullsKnee Senior Member

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    Dare I say that without the Infrastructure put in place by Steve Morgan, we wouldnt have been on a sound footing for FOSUN to buy us? They stated at the time the attractiveness of Wolves were the financial stability and infrastructure.
     
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  8. kaohsiungwolf

    kaohsiungwolf Senior Member

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    We did, but it was spread over 3 sites if I recall correctly, Aldersley being one, none of which we owned. Seem to remember one of the academy lads talking about what a shambles it was until it got consolidated, I think, under Morgan.
     
  9. Taffywolf

    Taffywolf Just doesn't shut up

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    I said it at the time when he was being lambasted by everyone that he invested heavily in the academy as he thought that was the right way to do things and who can argue? I know its very early days and tbh the benefits will continue for many years but the lads we have got in and around the 1st team now in could be worth mutli millions in a few years to come..
     
  10. kaohsiungwolf

    kaohsiungwolf Senior Member

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    How's that taking advantage of him? How many years was Morgan at Wolves? If he'd come in, asset stripped, invested nothing in the team, the infrastructure and shown absolutely no interest in the community, then fair enough.

    His intentions were entirely genuine, but he suffered poor judgement, dire P.R. and listened to / trusted the wrong people. I think people also oversimplify into an exact science how much of a mammoth task it is to run a successful club - especially one that's trying to get promoted.
     
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  11. Essex Wolf

    Essex Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    After Wolves 1st season in the PL they needed to step up in order to progress but as we all know things just worsened. In Wolves 2nd season they gained more points but actually finished lower down the league and the warning signs were unheeded and the rest is history. That's one of my memories of Morgan and as such a failure.
     
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  12. brightside

    brightside Just doesn't shut up

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    Unfair comments re Afobe and Sako in my opinion. We turned down 2 million for Sako when he had just 5 months left on his contract in an effort to get to the play offs and turned down 9-10 million from Norwich for Afobe that summer. When it became obvious he wanted out and the team was going nowhere we cashed in which I can't blame them for.
     
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  13. Derby Wolf

    Derby Wolf Senior Member

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    It was a perfect storm of sorts because that was happening behind the scenes and McCarthy was too loyal to Henry, Ward etc etc. I think as much as Morgan sat on funds McCarthy sat on progress with the faith in players at their absolute maximum. McCarthy needed to go after the Blackburn 2-3 but it was overlooked in the euphoria of scraping it.

    Morgans appointment record is one success in Jackett seeing as he inherited McCarthy.
     
  14. DDPP313

    DDPP313 Has a lot to say

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    The comment was aimed solely at our attempt to keep and build on Afobe, who alongside Dicko were undoubtedly a strong enough partnership to fire us back in to the Premier League had they been supplemented with quality behind them. He sold our most valuable asset leaving us languished in championship mediocrity and even now we are yet to improve. I believe the reason he wanted out as you put it was because it was clear as a team we were going nowhere, we didn't show enough ambition to get out of the league. And in hindsight it was most likely as Morgan was lining up the sale to Fosun.
     
  15. Padraig

    Padraig Has a lot to say

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    I'll believe it when I see it. We've had academy players around the fringes of the first team for years.

    Let's wait to find out how many of them make it with Wolves.
     
  16. astraltrader

    astraltrader Just doesn't shut up

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    Once Morgan realised we were unlikely to get back to the PL in the near future, he sold our best players and couldn't wait to sell the club!
    If we were still at the top table I believe he would still be here.
     
  17. brightside

    brightside Just doesn't shut up

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    In my opinion it became obvious pretty quickly that without Sako we had no chance of promotion. It would have have taken a lot of money and time to sort the defence and midfield out and I think Morgan realised that he didn't have enough of either.
    Believe me, Afobe was put out that Norwichs interest was rejected in the summer and wanted away. Selling him when we did really was the only option.
    Getting back on topic, I enjoyed the first 3-4 years under Morgan, he made some some woeful mistakes but I honestly believe he came with right intentions. His contribution to the academy could prove to be vital in the next couple of years bearing in mind the constraints that FFP are putting on Fosun.
     
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  18. Essex Wolf

    Essex Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Pretty much spot on DW.
    I and many others as I recollect have said McCarthy should have gone after the Blackburn home defeat. Some of the football, team selections and tactics were shocking and McCarthy's seeming OTT loyalty was, in my belief, a major factor is the demise. McCarthy being kept on was a terrible decision and I don't think anyone could even start saying about hindsight as many Wolves supporters could see clearly change was needed as soon as the Wolves V Blackburn game ended. That was the moment to make change. Harsh as it may seem a club needs to progress in the PL even if at times it's almost just to stand still. If it doesn't progress, well we saw what happened.
    Morgan ignored what was right before his eyes and when he did make the right decision it was wrong time due to the lateness of it.
    If you had a pros and cons column for decisions made and taken during the Morgan reign I'd hazard a guess the cons column would be leading and by some way.
     
  19. PumpKing

    PumpKing Just doesn't shut up

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    For years our training facilities for professional footballers were a total disgrace.
    We had porta cabins for changing rooms and players went behind the bushes for toilets. How we attracted decent players at that time is incredible. It was shameful.

    We as fans and the players, now take our incredible training facilities for granted. It certainly was not always like it is today. Remember, that without Steve Morgan we would be miles away from this.
    This achievement, together with his charity work and the new youth facility in the city centre makes Steve Morgan a fairly decent man in my eyes.
     
  20. brightside

    brightside Just doesn't shut up

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    He sold Afobe and gor the reasons I'v detailed above I don't think we had much choice.
    Sako was out of contract and the 2 million we got for Stears was a great deal and I'd say the evidence of the last 18 months has proved that decision correct.
    Sorry mate but this "Morgan asset stripped the squad" line that gets trotted out regularly is an absolute myth.
     
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  21. brightside

    brightside Just doesn't shut up

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    Whilst bored several months ago I went onto a couple of threads on this forum after that Blackburn game. I'd say it was probably less than 5% of posters saying McCarthy should go. Hindsight is great.
     
  22. Perton Wolf

    Perton Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Morgan's actions in building up the Academy may have been commendable in terms of long term thinking but his intentions were purely to save himself from having to put money into the club to fund transfers. No thanks from me.
     
  23. astraltrader

    astraltrader Just doesn't shut up

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    Sorry Brightside but he did sell our best players for whatever reasons.
    I also believe that if we were still in the PL, Steve Morgan would still be here.
    IMO the double relegation we endured spelt the begining of the end of his reign.
    Once we had got back to the Championship then it was only a matter of time before he put the club up for sale.
    He waited a year just in case Kenny managed to achieve a double promotion then the following season baled out.
    His nerve ran out along with the last of the parachute payments.
     
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  24. Surrey Wolf

    Surrey Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    selling players wasn't a problem it was the poor replacements, or not replacing them at all.
     
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  25. Essex Wolf

    Essex Wolf Just doesn't shut up

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    No reason to disbelieve you brightside but I clearly recall I and quite a few others said change was needed soon after that game ended and the time was right for change. Might not have been within moments of the final whistle but most certainly not long after and well before the new season started. Now if the figure wanting McCarthy gone was only about 5% I'd be surprised seeing as many had been moaning about the way things were going before the season ended but if that's what it is sobeit.
    Buy no hindsight from me brightside as I stand by my view McCarthy outstayed his usefullness and wanted him out and a a new manager brought in who could progress things.
     
  26. Rhoswolf

    Rhoswolf Just doesn't shut up

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    So what was the strength of the squad when he left in August, do you honestly believe that squad would have survived, I certainly don't?

    Can discuss Saturday over a pint or two.;)
     
  27. brightside

    brightside Just doesn't shut up

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    The squad was poor, but I still think 2 million for Stears was a good deal! I actually don't think the squad was particularly good in 13/14 but Sako carried us. To me he was Jacketts get out of jail free card.
    Looking forward to a few beers mate :D
     
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  28. brightside

    brightside Just doesn't shut up

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    To be fair mate I think the pure joy of Hunts goal keeping us up may have clouded some peoples judgement after the game.
    I was all for Mick staying but I'd have to admit I was wrong. That summer was when we needed to push on and failed.
     
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  29. northnorfolkwolf

    northnorfolkwolf Just doesn't shut up

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    Similar to what I said above but PL seems to have the bottle/is brace enough to give youth its chance. No other manager in recent times has been prepared to do this.
     
  30. PumpKing

    PumpKing Just doesn't shut up

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    Spot on there son. It can be a tough, cruel world for football managers. You work hard to get your team promoted or you manage to survive for another season like we did, and the reward is that you're not good enough for where you have taken us. You then have to go and make way for someone better suited.
    I loved Mick and always will and at the time I wanted him to stay, but we made the mistake of not replacing him after that Blackburn game I'm afraid.
    As I said, it is a cruel and unforgiving world, but every manager, the same as players have their own level of ability. It's better though to be seen as successful at a lower level than a failure at the top. I'm sure some do realise that and accept it.
     
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  31. Ashley

    Ashley Just doesn't shut up

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    I think the point is more to do with how the club itself, the infrastructure etc etc progressed pretty well but as noted the playing side of things went up, back down and ended where it began. The club though I feel did move forward under him behind the scenes
     
  32. WalsallWolf

    WalsallWolf Just doesn't shut up

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    If Hunt would not have scored that goal then I think Moxey in particular would have recognised the need to keep McCarthy given his expertise at the Champ and give him at least until the following Xmas. It would have been interesting to see how we would have reshaped ourselves. I would not have put it past McCarthy to have got us back at the first time of asking with Moxey/Morgan dare I say it, putting in the building blocks of the infrastructure in the background, you never know because financially we were set up very, very well for relegation - as wrong as that sounds. McCarthy with the 2010-2011 season end squad and money in his pocket like Solbakken had could have been very nice.

    As it was we stayed up and in hindsight (wonderful, easy thing) McCarthy should have actually gone. Strange to think of it all like that really, Always interesting to look back and wonder though.
     
  33. brightside

    brightside Just doesn't shut up

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    Exactly how I see it mate. Mick will always be a hero to me for what he did here.
     
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  34. Ashley

    Ashley Just doesn't shut up

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    I won't go as far as calling him a hero but without doubt he gave Wolverhampton wanderers, the fans and the city some pride back during his initial 4/5 seasons with us. Personally it was the most exciting time of my life supporting wolves ( I started watching in 1991 ) and for that he will always be remembered very fondly in my eyes. His limitations on taking us further than he did/could won't change my opinion on where we were when he arrived and what followed under his reign.
     
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  35. FLEET WOLF

    FLEET WOLF Just doesn't shut up

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    Spot on
     
  36. those were the days

    those were the days Senior Member

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    Yep, it's definitely a 'cheers Steve' from me for the academy. Morgan got some things badly wrong as we all know but the academy is definitely not one of those. Without the new infrastructure, I v much doubt we'd have attracted half of the talented youngsters we have done over the last 3-4 years. Time will tell how many of these players break through, of course, but I suspect the academy investment will reap considerable dividends long-term when we look back in 5-10 years time.
     
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  37. German Wolf

    German Wolf Has a lot to say

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    [QUO ="kaohsiungwolf, post: 4881680, member: 4049"]How's that taking advantage of him? How many years was Morgan at Wolves? If he'd come in, asset stripped, invested nothing in the team, the infrastructure and shown absolutely no interest in the community, then fair enough.

    His intentions were entirely genuine, but he suffered poor judgement, dire P.R. and listened to / trusted the wrong people. I think people also oversimplify into an exact science how much of a mammoth task it is to run a successful club - especially one that's trying to get promoted.[/QUOTE]

    I agree with you Kaohsiung but I withhold my support for and appreciation of Morgan until I feel that his endgame profit and loss at Wolves meant he lost more money on WWFC than the average fan. At present, I suspect that most fans have spent and not regained more money on supporting the club than he did while owning it. As such I will join in and sing uncivilized songs about him if we get to Anfield in the FA Cup.
     

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